Sprinter sales vs. Transit sales thread: Transit may have trouble outselling Sprinter

Re: merry christmas, more opinions

Nate said:

That's why you are supposed to order the Aux Heater that runs when the engine isn't on.

I looked at the Transit, but the medium height roof didn't have the clearance for my 5'-11" body.
Also I do want a diesel and the Transit with a Diesel costs about $800 less than the Sprinter and the Sprinter has more options.

But, I'm thrillled that Ford finally brought the Transit to the states.

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You do not want to order the optional Espar from Mercedes. It is a modified Espar by Mercedes. Just cost me about $2000 to get repaired by Mercedes with the local Mercedes dealer not charging for half the normal labor. Can not be serviced by Espar service centers since it is integrated into Sprinter computer and Mercedes does not have diagnostic software for the system so it is difficult for them to repair. Dumb engineering decision.

If you want a Espar diesel heater buy it from Espar with the Espar controller and install it in Sprinter after van purchase.

Transit has a high roof. I would wait to see what mpg the Transit diesel gets in the real world driving by owners. Larger engine with similar mpg as Sprinter might be a worth investigating. The Ford diesel option includes the heavy duty battery and cruise control options.

boardster said:

Aluminum corrodes, it just looks white instead of orange. Like steel, aluminum must be treated and maintained properly in order to prevent it from occurring.

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+1 As a vintage bicycle collector, I often see corroded aluminum and encounter galvanic corrosion of various parts. Aluminum is not the be-all, end-all solution to rust and corrosion. Maybe Ford will push the envelope even further and create a body made from magnesium.

photogravity said:

Maybe Ford will push the envelope even further and create a body made from magnesium.

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Ford didn't push any envelope with the aluminum body panels Lots of other manufactures have used aluminum body's for a very long time.

Others have used magnesium in cars for decades and have explored magnesium for body panels already.

Bugatti for example used a magnesium alloy body panels as early as 1935.

Cole said:

Ford didn't push any envelope with the aluminum body panels Lots of other manufactures have used aluminum body's for a very long time.
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Actually Ford and Alcoa did push the envelope with the development of special alloys. Highly engineered. Mostly glued and riveted since welding would not work as well.

d_bertko said:

Actually Ford and Alcoa did push the envelope with the development of special alloys. Highly engineered. Mostly glued and riveted since welding would not work as well.

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......any there have been lots of alloy versions by other makes too Ford is also not the only maker to "glue panels" together or onto a car.

For example the 1978 Porsche 928 had many aluminum body panels that used adhesives to attach them, etc.

Ford might be revisiting old tech in a new way, and that is great But I wouldn't say they "pushed the envelope" just yet.

Many of the "innovative" ideas they use have been around for a VERY long time in other makes.

guys
Ford through the trade has been pushing the need for those working in the collision repair business to be fully trained up on alum welding techniques as the need it is coming. FAST!

As for the use of adhesives well that's not new as Cole has mentioned!
Developed by 3M's and the Road Research Labs in the UK during the 1980's today it is commonplace. I have used these techniques with great success!

The most visible product you see on the road where the cab and sleeper is all glued together is the Pete!
The 587!
http://www.peterbilt.com/products/on-highway/587/
Dennis

3M products have been used for this to glue/tape enclosed trailers sheet metal and the training video I saw in the early 90's used an ambulance manufacture as an example using this for their body panels. Saves time having to rivet or screw panels, less likely to leak, saves material (don't have to scrap 1 or 2 body panels) when a hole or screw is installed in wrong place, and reduces noise levels because more or less both panels become 1.

In a super quick search I found a PARTIAL list of cars that use aluminum panels. I can think of 4-5 examples off the top of my head that aren't on this list. So it's far from comprehensive. What it does show is that Ford is jumping on the bandwagon, not pushing the envelope.

http://www.supanet.com/top-10-aluminium-cars-g84p1.html

http://www.paintgages.com/List-of-Car-Manufacturers-who-use-Aluminum-Body-Panels-s/51.htm

Cole said:

In a super quick search I found a PARTIAL list of cars that use aluminum panels. I can think of 4-5 examples off the top of my head that aren't on this list. So it's far from comprehensive. What it does show is that Ford is jumping on the bandwagon, not pushing the envelope.

http://www.supanet.com/top-10-aluminium-cars-g84p1.html

http://www.paintgages.com/List-of-Car-Manufacturers-who-use-Aluminum-Body-Panels-s/51.htm

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Okay, where is the list of mass produced like we would expect from the best selling pickup in the US or maybe even the planet?

flman said:

Okay, where is the list of mass produced like we would expect from the best selling pickup in the US or maybe even the planet?

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Here


One simple example is the the Audi A8 is a mass produced car and has always been all aluminum.

I realize some of you only pay attention to trucks, but many of these techniques have been used on cars for a LONG time!



Aluminum has been used in cargo vans going back a LONG time too! (And campers and airplanes, etc)

I don't know why people think the use of aluminum by Ford, now, is so revolutionary.

One example!

Ford is definitely pushing the volume envelop of the technology and the infrastructure related to 500,000 vehicles per year. Audi A8 sales for this year were 100 times lower than F series. Ford made a very gutsy move with their cash cow while burning their boats.

If Ford would come out with a fully anodized chassis, this could be interesting.

George.

Cole said:

Here


One simple example is the the Audi A8 is a mass produced car and has always been all aluminum.

I realize some of you only pay attention to trucks, but many of these techniques have been used on cars for a LONG time!



Aluminum has been used in cargo vans going back a LONG time too! (And campers and airplanes, etc)

I don't know why people think the use of aluminum by Ford, now, is so revolutionary.

One example!

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That old aluminum truck with less corrosion then my 9 and 4 year old Sprinter speaks volumes that Ford is making a good move. Meanwhile the engineers in Germany are thinking of ways to make the paint even thinner on the Sprinter. As well as figuring out ways to make them rust out and need replacement sooner.

GeorgeRa said:

. Ford made a very gutsy move with their cash cow while burning their boats.

George.

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Ha! Ford is protecting its own ass! They HAVE to change to meet increasingly difficult fuel mileage standards. The F150 being their largest volume seller means that it's also the largest contributor to its average fuel consumption numbers!

flman said:

Sprinter speaks volumes that Ford is making a good move.

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I'm not arguing that this isn't a good move! We need more companies to move towards light weight and long lasting materials.

But for anyone that thinks a company like Ford is being innovative or doing these things for the sake of the consumer, think again. Ford is doing avert hinging can to stay alive and profitable! Hopefully revisiting these old technologies with new eyes will ultimately benefit the consumer and the whole industry.

Cole said:

Ha! Ford is protecting its own ass! They HAVE to change to meet increasingly difficult fuel mileage standards. The F150 being their largest volume seller means that it's also the largest contributor to its average fuel consumption numbers!



I'm not arguing that this isn't a good move! We need more companies to move towards light weight and long lasting materials.

But for anyone that thinks a company like Ford is being innovative or doing these things for the sake of the consumer, think again. Ford is doing avert hinging can to stay alive and profitable! Hopefully revisiting these old technologies with new eyes will ultimately benefit the consumer and the whole industry.

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Lots of old technologies took a long time to catch on, fuel injection was available in the 50 but we were still using carburetors in the 80s. Some things need to evolve, become cost effective and profitable, plus wait for the right technology. Other mass produced vehicle brands will be using aluminum before you know it.

flman said:

Lots of old technologies took a long time to catch on, fuel injection was available in the 50 but we were still using carburetors in the 80s. Some things need to evolve, become cost effective and profitable, plus wait for the right technology. Other mass produced vehicle brands will be using aluminum before you know it.

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I get that. Totally agree with that. Pretty much what my examples have been showing. Which is exactly why I think stating that Ford is "pushing the envelope" on these things is incorrect. They are simply doing what they need to do to survive.

Cole said:

......any there have been lots of alloy versions by other makes too Ford is also not the only maker to "glue panels" together or onto a car.

For example the 1978 Porsche 928 had many aluminum body panels that used adhesives to attach them, etc.

Ford might be revisiting old tech in a new way, and that is great But I wouldn't say they "pushed the envelope" just yet.

Many of the "innovative" ideas they use have been around for a VERY long time in other makes.

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Yes, Ford is not doing much that has not been possible before. The innovation here is to engineer the alloys for pickup truck abuse and to get the assembly and repair costs down for the mass market. This is a "lightweighted" mass produced vehicle. Thus you get similar gvwr ratings which translates to an extra 700 lbs of payload. And of course it accelerates unloaded much quicker than its steel cousins with the same horsepower/torque.

The BMW i3 and i8 are even more interesting since AL is 3x steel price while carbon fiber started out 5x AL price. BMW has cut the carbon fiber cost in half so far. A much bigger gamble for them in the long run.

Dan

RZ33 said:

Since the Sprinter's competitor, the Transit, has already been on sale since June, I thought it would be interesting to see how it stacks up against the Sprinter from that point and moving forward.

First off, for June...

The Transit has been on sale since the month of June, yet it only sold 490 units for that month.

http://www.bizjournals.com/kansascity/news/2014/07/02/ford-transit-auto-sales-debut.html

http://www.autonews.com/article/20140701/RETAIL01/140709983

During the same month, the Sprinter sold 2,201 units.

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/01/6526225/mercedes-benz-achieves-highest.html

http://www.thedieseldriver.com/2014/07/mercedes-benz-reports-8-rise-in-june-sales/

Additionally, for that same month, the Ram Promaster sold 1,131 units.

http://www.allpar.com/news/index.php/2014/07/chrysler-celebrates-with-june-sales

The Promaster has been on sale since last year and has only sold 5,707 year to date for 2014. The Sprinter, in comparison, has sold 11,483 for the year to date.

http://www.sacbee.com/2014/07/01/6526225/mercedes-benz-achieves-highest.html

Of special note, during the Promaster's first month in October 2013, it sold 570 units, vs. only 490 units for the Transit's first month.

http://media.chrysler.com/newsrelease.do?&id=15047

It's possible that, like the Promaster, the Transit may end up struggling vs. the Sprinter.

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January 2015 sales:

Sprinter 1505
Transit 6380

I think your question has been answered. May not related to which van is better. More dealers = more sales.

Tomorrow I will take a trip down the Ca. coast to break in the Transit engine. Nice variable speed and load. I am very curious about the mpg and how I will react to the new Transit. So far with a couple of hundred miles, I prefer the Transit. Quieter, handles better, normal instrumentation, more comfortable, logical controls, more power, a transmission that works correctly etc. After the trip I will know more.

I've got 1000 miles on my T-250 high roof extended body cargo, so when I leave next week for a 3200 mile trip I'll be confident the 3.5 Ecoboost has been properly broken in.
Looking forward to a decent MPG at moving along with the traffic Interstate speeds.

Graphite Dave said:

January 2015 sales:

Sprinter 1505
Transit 6380

I think your question has been answered. May not related to which van is better. More dealers = more sales.

Tomorrow I will take a trip down the Ca. coast to break in the Transit engine. Nice variable speed and load. I am very curious about the mpg and how I will react to the new Transit. So far with a couple of hundred miles, I prefer the Transit. Quieter, handles better, normal instrumentation, more comfortable, logical controls, more power, a transmission that works correctly etc. After the trip I will know more.

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Sprinter = niche vehicle?

I can remember 6 months ago all the gloating about how bad the transit was selling, even though there were none at the Ford dealers.Looks like Uhaul has picked up a bunch as well.

Now Sprinter is selling less then a 1/4 of what Transit is selling, and add Promaster the equation and the percentage gets even lower. Glad to see MB getting their azzes kicked after have a rusty jumbo van monopoly for about 13 years in the US.

Graphite Dave said:

January 2015 sales:

Sprinter 1505
Transit 6380

I think your question has been answered. May not related to which van is better. More dealers = more sales.

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Transits have replaced Ford's E-Series. E-series have historically sold on average 11,000 units per month.


It appears sales are still suffering or haven't rebounded for Ford, and as Sprinter sale are rising. Perhaps with ford faithfuls being faced with a 33% increase in purchase price, they are now willing to look at the market options, and discovering better value? Or are willing to try something new?



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