Click no start- [and other no start] tips.

220629

Well-known member
AGM? Here is Sprinterland I am crucified daily with these 3 letter acronyms....actually most are Initialisms. Try looking some up and they'll have multiple meanings...AGM? Annual Global Meeting....sure.
This may help.

 
Had this issue first time, hadn't read this thread before fixing. Relay clicked under seat, no error code, van started and ran fine if pushed, parked on slopes after that. Van is 22 years old but pretty clean, manual gearbox so no sensor there, camshaft/crankshaft sensors are good since it runs and no code, fuses ok, had no multimeter with me so I left it down to starter relay, starter and cables.
I ordered a relay to have it for a spare (I keep with the van a box with spare sensors that could leave me stranded) but apparently solved the issue before it came -> fast drying contact cleaner, a good tool to have. I just sprayed the starter in the connectors area, left it rest a bit, no issue since. So cables it is, I will have connections cleaned as soon as I get the chance, but I just wanted to remind about the cleaner because I didn't see it mentioned as a possible quick fix here.
Update: I postponed the job over and over until it happened again. The culprit was most likely the copper bridging wire (chassis to engine). The car started when I wiggled it. I finally took it out, looks like corrosion was inside the chassis connector. I replaced it with an insulated one (>200 deg. Celsius resistant). If you don't have another one, I suppose some connectors hammering could do the job, at least for a while, just to reengage enough electrical contact, or a jumper cable directly from the battery grounding to engine, but this might have to be done at every start.
 
I noticed that there are 2 ea. Ignition Switch 12 volt supplies needed to activate the Start Relay and Starter. For No Crank symptoms it is necessary to add 2 ea. test lights to help to check whether the ignition switch may be the problem.

To power the Fuel Pump Relay the Ignition Switch 12 volts from the S108 splice remains powered after starting. The Start Relay and the Fuel Pump Relay power share the circuit, and therefore the fuse which feeds S108.

View attachment 222108

This Schematic is the stripped down "Except OBD" circuit. (No electric fuel pump.)

View attachment 222109

View attachment 105880

:cheers: vic

Added:
And some info from another thread. (It may be a duplication.)



Added:
Vic my question is can you tell me more about what is s219? I believe my problems are all related s219 but I have no idea what that is or how to test this? Pls advise me
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
Vic my question is can you tell me more about what is s219? I believe my problems are all related s219 but I have no idea what that is or how to test this? Pls advise me
An 'S' number is a SPLICE, and can be either a visible junction of several wires or a 'hidden' junction within a loom. I think there is a location map of all splices within section 8W of the service manual to help you locate the one in question.
 

220629

Well-known member
Some T1N information specific to starting and the FB #1 Fuse Box #1 module.

It appears that the +12 volt power BK/YL and Violet wire C2 to C3 is used within the FB #1 for the starting circuit. I added some notes in blue to the schematics.

8w-20-6 8w-10-13 IgnStartwNotes02Blue.jpg

8w-20-6 8w-10-13 IgnStartwNotes02Blue.jpg

A recent discussion is here.


vic
 
Some T1N information specific to starting and the FB #1 Fuse Box #1 module.

It appears that the +12 volt power BK/YL and Violet wire C2 to C3 is used within the FB #1 for the starting circuit. I added some notes in blue to the schematics.

View attachment 223391

View attachment 223393

A recent discussion is here.


vic
Hey Vic

great rite up.
So if u add a jumper wire to the violet wire and direct to the starter motor , it should crank on its own.
To me this would confirm if fusebox 1 is fine.

this would to me indicate the problem may be further down the line at ecu or wiring at starter motor.
 

220629

Well-known member
Hey Vic

great rite up.
So if u add a jumper wire to the violet wire and direct to the starter motor , it should crank on its own.
To me this would confirm if fusebox 1 is fine.

this would to me indicate the problem may be further down the line at ecu or wiring at starter motor.
:idunno:

The real result needed is starting, not just cranking.

There's some actual troubleshooting used mentioned in this link that included above.


vic
 

tonyinmemphis

New member
To solve the “Click no start” problem we need to divide into groups of problems.
1 step is to test motor ground cable easy take a jumper cable and from battery ground to motor case if starts bypass the frame ground with ground cable to the motor at engine bracket motor mount. This is one click no start. later driving engine will shut down no power to wiper and power windows, ground post will be hotter than hell.



The first group could be the Battery and Charging System.
The second group could be Security and Relays.
The third group could be the Starter and its Solenoid.


Initial Testing
To find out which group you have, test by turning on the interior light , turn the key if the light goes out it is the first group Battery and Charging system.

If the light stays on, next test by running a wire from the small terminal on the starter.
To do this you should make up a test lead. Get a 2m or 8 feet length of hook-up wire. Connect a small alligator clip to each end. Connect one clip to the small terminal on the starter and the other end to a multimeter lead. The other meter lead must go to earth (ground/negative). The seat mounting bolts are a good earth.

With the meter resting on the seat and switched to 20 volts DC, turn the key. If the meter reads 12 volts you have good security (SKREEM) and relays circuit so go to the third group. If you do not get the 12 volts the problem is in the second group, Security and Relays.

Background information.

Most electrical problems are caused by poor electrical connections. To understand why we need some basic science.

All metals except gold oxidize when exposed to moisture. Oxides are good insulators. MB uses good quality connectors with rubber seals but a little bit of moisture still gets in. The more important pins are silver plated. If a plug has provision for 6 wires but only has 5 fitted then there should be a rubber plug in the 6th hole to keep moisture out. Mixing metals for connections makes things worse. Cheap pins are tin pated steel, better ones are tin plated brass, the next up is plated silver. The best are gold plated.

If something is not working there is a good chance it is not properly connected to the loom. If you have a bad connection the ECU cannot see the device and chucks a code. If you then scan the vehicle you will get a message like XYZ is faulty when in fact it is not, but is just not connected.

Things like relays are hard to keep free of moisture so they are placed under seats or in closed boxes.

High current circuits have an added problem. A small amount of oxide causes some resistance this resistance causes the connection to get hot which greatly accelerates oxidation. This is very noticeable on battery terminals. When a heavy cable with a copper crimp is bolted to steel, because you have mixed metals you get oxide problems.

This is common when a negative battery cable is earthed. All is not lost if you keep moisture out with some form of moisture barrier like lanolin or silicone. If the oxidization occurs inside a crimp you can remove the oxide with something like soldering flux, the function of fluxes is to get in under oxide layers. If you clean a crimp with flux you must then wash and dry it quickly then soft solder it. Washing your engine with water is a sure way of generating many faults. Using a steam cleaner on any modern engine can lead to a very big repair job.

Battery and Charging System
If you have a problem in the first group you must decide if the battery is flat or there is a cable problem.

To test the battery connect a multimeter directly to the battery terminals it will normally show 12.6 volts. Get someone to turn the key. If the battery voltage drops to say 9 volts then your battery is not charged. If the voltage stays up around 12 then you have a cable problem.

To find the cable problem place one meter lead on the negative terminal and the other lead on a shiny metal part of the engine, turn the key again, if the meter reads less than 1 volt your battery earth is OK if it reads say 4 volts then your earth cable is the problem.

If your battery earth is good then test the positive terminal connection. To do this place one lead on the positive terminal directly and the other lead on the copper lug of the heavy wire. With key on, once again if it reads less than 1 volt you are Ok if it reads more your positive terminal is corroded.

By now you know if it’s the battery or the cables. If the battery is flat then we have to decide if it’s a faulty battery or a charging problem.

A common problem with Sprinters is the cable that connects the alternator to the battery. To test this it is best to get the engine running, so best to charge up the battery with a good 3 stage charger. If you only have an old style battery charger then it is prudent to disconnect the earth terminal on the battery to charge it by connecting directly to the terminals.

Once you have it charged and reconnected, start the engine. To decide if it is charging the battery use your multimeter to measure the battery voltage, it should be above 12.6 and slowly rising. A bit of fast idling should bring the voltage up to over 13volts. If this voltage is not rising over 12.6 [or less] then you may have a potential cable problem.

To test this connect your multimeter to the large terminal on the alternator. While the engine is running, with the voltmeter negative lead earthed your meter may show the same voltage as the battery. If it does you have an alternator problem. If the voltage at the large connection of the alternator is more like 14 volts then you have a cable problem.

If you have a cable problem then remove the earth lead on the battery first (for safety), then remove the cable. When you have the cable out, look for discolouration of the wire going into the crimps. If you find that, repair as in the discussion of corrosion above. Note there can be a heavy fuse in the cable under the engine, this is unlikely to be blown but it could be corroded.

At this stage we should consider the glow plugs. If when you turn the key the glow plugs come on it tells us that the ECU is happy for the engine to start but the start relay is not being energized. If we keep trying to find the fault turning the key many times then we risk flattening the battery because the glow plugs draw a lot of power. We are also shortening the life of the glow plugs by constantly heating them. If you have this situation it is best to unplug the glow plug controller, if you can find the glow plug fuse then pull it. If you are not able to find the fuse you can unplug the small 4 pin plug that connects the controller to the ECU.

Security and Relays
If the problem is in the second group then we have to work through the cct [aka circuit] to find the cause.

The starting circuit is complex for safety and security. The way it works is to first establish if you have a valid key. that verified, it checks to see if the transmission is in neutral, then the ECU checks if the basic parameters of the engine are safe to start. If all that is OK then the start relay is energized.

If you can find your start relay using the excellent information that is posted on this forum then you can feel the relay to find out if it is being energized.
Fuse Block #2 Fuse Map 2004
https://sprinter-source.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24683

If it’s not or you are not sure, pull the relay out and look at the pins, if they are clean and shiny then we have to look at the voltages on the pins in the relay socket. Pin 30 should have 12 volts, pin 87 is the lead to the starter and will show 0 volts. The other pins 85 and 86 will have voltage across them when the ECU is trying to start. To verify this place your meter leads in 85and 86 turn the key. If you get nothing then the ECU is not telling the relay to start. If you get volts when the key is turned then the relay is being energized but is not sending the voltage to the starter, this could be a faulty relay or the wire to the starter is open.

Starter and its Solenoid

If the starter is faulty we need to pull it out and test it. Never ever short out the big terminals it is dangerous and proves nothing. The other thing to never ever do is hit the starter with a hammer. This practice started in the days of crude stator wiring, The modern starter has a permanent magnet stator that is made from very strong rare earth magnets these magnets are reliable but brittle. Eric.
 

tonyinmemphis

New member
:idunno:

The real result needed is starting, not just cranking.

There's some actual troubleshooting used
o solve the “Click no start” problem
1 step is to test motor ground cable easy take a jumper cable and from battery ground to motor case if starts bypass the frame ground with ground cable to the motor at engine bracket motor mount. This is one click no start. later driving engine will shut down no power to wiper and power windows, ground post will be hotter than hell.
 

gj91

New member
Just want to add my recent click no start experience. I was dealing with the cold weather before Christmas in Chicago. I first thought it was a cold dead battery but I was able to drive from the storage to my house. Brought the battery inside to warm up and put on a charger. Still nothing. Had to get it towed to the dealer on December 26th. It took a day before the could troubleshoot the issue but found it was the starter fuse. Always check your fuses first. I didn't even know there was a starter fuse. Ended up getting a new starter as well because something caused the fuse to pop.

Also, remember you can tow front wheels up under 30 mph for a short distance. This helps because it's not easy to find a tow big enough and no need to drop the drive line.

Jim
 

Cheyenne

UK 2004 T1N 313CDi
If that was the infamous 20 Amp fuse (#23 iirc) then there is an MB document somewhere on the forum saying to uprate it to a 25 Amp.
 

gj91

New member
If that was the infamous 20 Amp fuse (#23 iirc) then there is an MB document somewhere on the forum saying to uprate it to a 25 Amp.

This helps, it was the first time it's blown but it's good to know to uprate to 25 Amp. I'm wondering if this is documented in any MB Service manual. I'm going to see if they put a 20 Amp back in or a 25 amp.
 

Bmseven

New member
Weird one here I get the click no start if I carry out Eric's test below with a multimeter from bat neg to small terminal on starter the van starts 1st time with 12v reading. I can then remove the lead turn off and it will start each time I try it!
If I leave it a day I have to connect the meter again as above to get it to start
Any ideas what's going on?
2008 w906 v6 auto


Initial Testing
To find out which group you have, test by turning on the interior light , turn the key if the light goes out it is the first group Battery and Charging system.

If the light stays on, next test by running a wire from the small terminal on the starter.
To do this you should make up a test lead. Get a 2m or 8 feet length of hook-up wire. Connect a small alligator clip to each end. Connect one clip to the small terminal on the starter and the other end to a multimeter lead. The other meter lead must go to earth (ground/negative). The seat mounting bolts are a good earth.

With the meter resting on the seat and switched to 20 volts DC, turn the key. If the meter reads 12 volts you have good security (SKREEM) and relays circuit so go to the third group. If you do not get the 12 volts the problem is in the second group, Security
 

bcislander

'07 Mercedes-badged Dodge
Check the system voltage with the engine running. The voltage should be ~14.0V to 14.2V.
A low system voltage can cause multiple fault codes as well as resulting in a battery that is never fully charged.

A voltage below 14.0V usually indicates a faulty Y-Cable and/or engine to chassis ground strap.
The original Y-Cable in 2007-2010(?) Sprinters was poorly designed and prone to failure.

Replace the Y-Cable and/or ground strap if the system voltage is below ~14.0V.

A few relevant Y-Cable search results:



 

Bmseven

New member
System voltage is 14.2 when running there is no fuse In the y cable
If I unbolt the y cable from the battery and put it straight back on the van starts first time connections are clean and cable resistance is fine
 

GibSprint

New member
Greetings from the salty mediterranean

I am a small business owner with a 906ba35 (NCV3), 316 bluetec. Nice to meet you all!

Well my 2017 906 (NCV3) had some issues even before this latest development.

I’d sent this link twice to my mechanic/friend asking him to go thru each point carefully in the how-to guide at the beginning of this forum. Well turns out he didn’t till I offered to print it out for him today and he’ll do it properly this time around, i’ll let you know how it goes. That’s a lesson i’ve learnt for next time.

I met with him today there are three pecularities. Firstly, the radio/console/computer won’t switch on. Secondly, both key fobs are not working for remote opening and closing. Thirdly, upon towing it ticks over but no revs when accelarate and as soon as depress the clutch, everything dies.

It’s salty connections corrode, all the grounds have been cleaned or replaced. all fuses have been checked. Van’s been stopped for 6 months, brand new AGM battery. Codes need resetting I know I will ask him again. Any ideas?
 

rasa

rasa
Click. Click. Jump didn't help. Our solution? Clean the connection of the Y Cable at the starter. Remove the corrosion. Start the sprinter.
 

slimjimbest

New member
This has been a helpful thread, thanks!

2004 Dodge Sprinter, 2500. Intermittent no-click, no-start. 2 problems.

Mechanic found when he pressed on Fuse Box #1 it clicked and started. Got a new one at Portland M-B dealer ($200). Dealer was surprised they had 2 in stock and commented that people must be finding them a problem out there.

Still intermittent. Mechanic found that driving ECM pin#44 to ground started it. Suggested we replace the ECM ($2500). Didn't. Left the shop with a hope and prayer. Got a AWG 22 wire tap at AutoZone ($5). Sure enough, no-click no-start parked 17 miles off-grid in Eugene. Wire-tapped the yellow-blue wire, pin#44. Now when I get no-click no-start I touch the wire tap extension to the chassis ground on a bolt in the door hinge and it starts every time. So MacGyver! But a butt-saver.

I'm in way over my head. $2500 ECM replacement? Or is there something else not driving pin#44 to ground?
Thanks for your thoughts and experience!
 

ECU

2006 T1n 118 Sprinter
My thought is that if pressing on the fuse box #1 allowed start, I would look for bad connection there. Likely corrosion on one of the connectors in the back.
I looked through the electric charts
The wire you're grounding is the signal from the ECU to the Wiper/turnsignal/ engine start control module.
My question would be WHERE the grounding of pin 44 is done?
The wire goes through connector C5 witch is on the back of the fuse block #1. This could be a bad connection. The module seems to be on the fuse block, I don't know where.
An ohm meter could tell you if the ECU is turning pin 44 to ground which is what you want to have happen.
But if pin 44 is not going ground it could be bad ECU. BUT it also could be any other safety function is not reporting properly. The gear shift for instance.

1722104487382.png
1722104926044.png
1722105702443.png
 

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